As usual, it started by me sharing this compassionate article from USA's National Public Radio:
2 parents discuss losing children to gun violence between Israelis and Palestinians
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/05/1161221983/2-parents-discuss-losing-children-to-gun-violence-between-israelis-and-palestini?fbclid=IwAR0Bu2PLQhSlaS4XkAeAYyVT-MPPEMsNwxRCicup578GP5cLB4jFt-Swem0
March 5, 2023
Heard on: All Things Considered
NPR's Michel Martin speaks with Robi Damelin and Bassam Aramin, two parents who lost their children to the violence between Israelis and Palestinians, about the current unrest taking place there.
Then, a "discussion" began.
Norman cohen <ishahrofah@gmail.com> wrote:
Ishmael is a wild ass of a man.
His hand will be against every man and [in return] every man's hand will be against him.
[Genesis]
If you [Israelites] don't drive out the inhabitants of your land from before you, then it shall come to pass that they shall be as pins in your eyes and thorns in your sides and shall vex you in the land wherein you dwell.
[Numbers]
All written at least 2300 years ago [Greek Septuagint], probably more than 2500 years ago [Purim is not included] and most likely more than 3000 years ago [end of story, Mosaic tradition].
Norman
I wrote:
The good old Jewish racism.
Rav Kahana (Ymach Shemo Vezichro) is alive and kicking.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Norman cohen:
Torat Emet ----- Torah is true.
Effendi Sheker ----- A secular leftist idol-worshiper.
Norman
Howard Berglas <howard@btcapital.ca>:
He is worse than just an idol worshipper. He works hand in hand with those that call for the destruction of the Jewish people*.
Howard Berglas, CPA BComm.
Rachel Lipsky <ralipsky@verizon.net>:
It’s even worse than that. Actually he works hand in hand with those who call and act for the destruction of humanity.
Norman cohen:
Ms. Lipsky,
You have to understand.
The Earth was not created for man.
Man was created for the Earth.
But man is destroying the Earth.
So man must be destroyed.
Nuclear war would be a good method.
All we need is the right cult leader to
head the right country.
We might soon be there.
Norman
I wrote:
Here is a man (more of a creep, no offense to all dear creeps out there) who is calling for a mass murder by a nuclear bomb. And he is siding with the other creep (Berglas) who claims that I want to destroy the Jewish people.
The truth is, that I am a loyal Israeli citizen, and you are not loyal US citizens.
But let me explain to you your situation, plain and simple:
You guys started a civil war, when your people raided Congress. And you guys side with a criminal organization in Israel (Likud party), which started a civil war against Democratic Israel.
So here are the facts: everyone who started a war against democratic Israel (1948, 1967, 1973) - was defeated, big time. And you guys will be defeated this time. Here is why: you and the ones you side with are in minority; you are intellectually inferior; we have the technology, the courage, the morality; and mainly - your guys are much weaker, militarily. I served in the IDF for 12 years, you didn't. The guys you support - are the ones we in Israel call "Jobniks", people who avoided real combat (or combat-supporting) military service, for lack of courage or lack of capability. We (the democratic, humanistic, liberal camp) will Crush you like little bugs.
Tonight, Netanyahu declared war (one more time) on the State of Israel, by preventing the nomination of a new committee to elect new judges. This is another serious political crisis, that he is driving for personal interests. Thousands of people will swarm the streets this Saturday, and this time, they will respond physically against the Enemies.
As the late Prof. Leibowitz (a devout Orthodox) said: civil wars are sometimes some of the greatest moments of free countries. A free state fights against ANY enemy, be it external (that's obvious) or internal (less so). You and I will probably not fight in this war, because we are too old. But my sons and their friends will meet your sons, grandsons, nephews, other relatives, sons and daughters of your friends - and we will beat the shit out of them, and will shoot to kill if necessary. This is something that you guys are not capable of doing, because I know form my military experience, that those like your NRA friends, who dress in fatigue and wear those stupid war patches - are the dickless pieces of shit, who are very easy to defeat in battle.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Roger Brick (brickrj@gmail.com):
צודק!!
Norman cohen:
The more that Jews are killed by Arab terror, the more that Israel is protected from getting a "Palestinian State".
Hashgocha Protis.
While Israel is punished for holding out the possibility of a "Palestinian State".
Also Hashgocha Protis.
Got it, Effendi?
Norman
Howard Berglas:
Efen Does not Believe in G-d.
I wrote:
I'd rather be a traitor in the eye of stupid people, than collaborate with an evil government.
"I'd rather be called a fool all my life on earth, and not to do evil for one hour before the Lord" - Akabia ben Mahalal'el, Talmud Bavli Eduyot, ch. 5)
Your labeling me as s traitor is an honor.
I was both glad and sorry when the dictatorship camp (headed by the defendant Netanyahu) declared civil war on Israel. Sorry, because I hate wars (I've seen many, one as a soldier). But glad, because this is an opportunity to defeat the evil which cannot be persuaded in any other way.
"Values are such things that you cannot argue over; some people love fascism, I hate it. There's nothing to argue about here. Values can only fought over, in civil wars" (Yisha'ayahu Leibowitz)
We have the majority (including some who voted for Netanyahu, but hate his corruption), we have the IAF pilots, special unit veterans, 8200 intelligence, Israeli hi-tech, Israeli finance sector, and more. You guys only have Jobniks and just a few Kahana supporters who can shoot.
So, En garde, stupid - war is coming, and you're going to lose it.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Howard Berglas:
Good you can keep that honor.
Along with it you are a liar and Traitor.
I wrote:
Thank you Mr. Berglas.
It's also good to know that you guys are out of arguments, so you keep calling me names and making fun of my last name.
Your idols Trump and Netanyahu are close to be sent behind bars. And you are facing defeat, so be prepared.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Roger Brick:
Avner,
When one lives in a fact free environment, epithets are what you use as a howitzer. Alas, it’s magical thinking.
As we see here with the traitor trump, after exposing our nation’s most highly kept secrets to others in order to feed his fragile galactic ego, his defense is to call his accusers people who “hate him” or say “but look at what X did!”
It’s the best he can do when the facts of the accusations against him are so plain to see.
It was pleasing to see his prior chief of staff be quoted as saying that …”trump is scared sh*tless.”
Hopefully Bibi and the anointed orange one will soon be tossed on the trash heap of history.
Stay safe. Ignore the small minds.
Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):
Fantasizing about Donald John Trump, ending up behind Bars in a Federal Prison, wearing a Federal Prisoner’s Orange Uniform to go with his Orange hair, for Dr. Roger Brick, is like the same thrill I used to get when as a kid, sneaking a peek at the Playboy Girl of the Month.
Dr. Roger Brick knows, as well as I do, that Donny Johnny won’t do a day in the Big House and that the indictments will only improve his chances of becoming our next President.
Ronald Redfield (rredfield@rbcpa.com):
"the indictments will only improve his chances of becoming our next President." And that tells us what is wrong with the American people. He is and was a stain on our great nation.
The bias of this group is unsettling to me. I am politically unaffiliated. To judge a Jew by his political beliefs, and to accuse those who differ, are not worthy G-d fearing Jews is biased, wrong, and continually sickening.
I would have no issues being removed from all further threads. The only positive information I have received are several recipes from Myron.
All the best,
Ron
Howard Berglas:
You are a fool one cannot argue with a fool.
You are also not a Believer in G-d that makes you a colossal fool.
I wrote:
I do believe in God, but it's different than your god.
I believe in the flying spaghetti monster.
She is much nicer than your god, who if exists, he killed 1 million innocent children in the holocaust.
And you guys trust your imaginary friend, to save Israel from it's racism and stupidity... Pathetic.
You are doomed to go extinct, like all creatures in natural history which couldn't adapt to changes in the environment.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Barry Wolfensohn (barrydwolf@gmail.com):
Avner, I know the people on this e mail list wil not be happy with your remarks.
The attacks will begin, I know they will have little effect.
We are still safe here i the USA because the neo Nais and the deep state have not yet taken away all of free speech.
Howard Berglas:
You are truly evil
Barry Wolfensohn:
are all non believers evil ?
Norman cohen:
Wolfensohn,
You say that they have not taken away all of free speech?
So you are OK with the free speech that the Neo-Nazis have in fact taken away, notoriously, with the help of their Hi-Tech social media.
You no-good snarky stupid German bastard !
Norman
Ryan Silver <rls198011@gmail.com>:
Amein!
I wrote:
Ramen!
(That's the Pastafari version of Amein).
STEPHEN GOLUB <golub413@yahoo.com>:
Anyone who looks the Human body , at even one organ, and how it functions ,cannot fail to see that it required an unbelievable superior Intelligence to produce it!! He believes in the spaghetti whatever? Let him go his deluded way!
I wrote:
Mr. Golub,
If you paid attention in high school, and learned your biology better, you would have realized the following facts, that are among other thousands of pieces of evidence in favor of evolution by natural selection, without the need of an imaginary friend to supervise.
BTW, 99% of scientists, religious and secular alike, agree on the validity of those facts. Therefore, a scientist who was a devout orthodox Jew, Prof. Leibowitz, taught that the Torah was not a source of scientific wisdom - it consists of false explanations, along with too many errors (such as that the bat is a type of bird, that pi = 3, and many more).
Among the many scientific truths:
1. Modern biology provides very concise and accurate (albeit not complete) explanation for the development of physiologic functions by way of natural, blind and unsupervised evolution. Those explanations are way better than the ones provided by religious myths, or, for that matter, by the notion that the Flying Spaghetti Monster made it (which is just as childish and incoherent as the Torah's explanation).
2. The human body is a marvelous incarnation of design; however, even within it there are some features which any engineer would find inefficient, and even a beginner would design more efficiently. One example is the recurrent laryngeal nerve (RLN). This nerve is an extension of the Vagus nerve, which is Latin for "stray", for a good reason: RLN function is to connect the brain with the Larynx (voice box), but instead of going from your head directly to your throat - it detours down to your chest, and then goes back up. In a Giraffe, this is a waste of a good few meters of tissue... obviously not the most efficient design.
This is a very strong evidence, all biologists agree, to a process that happened blindly, without any sense of purpose - that ended up with a functioning organ, although not the most efficient one.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):
AVNER, take this one step further please. I’m not sure whether I heard of Professor Leibowitz or not, but it doesn’t make any difference because I know nothing about him, other than what you just wrote and explained. That’s very interesting and I’m fascinated. How did Professor Leibowitz reconcile his devout Orthodoxy with his knowledge of science?
On a personal note, I understand you’re born in the Argentine. What caused you to make Aliyah? In other words, as certain Rabbis would ask, where are you in terms of your Yiddishkeit?
I wrote:
Dear Myron,
Prof Yeshayahu Leibowitz z"l was a world renown scientist. He got his PhD in chemistry. One of his mentors, Nobel prize winner Fritz Haber (A Jew who converted to Lutheranism just to keep his scientific job) asked him to be his assistant, but it didn't materialize since Leibowitz wouldn't work on Shabbat. Later Leibowitz got his doctorate in medicine, but worked on biochemistry and physiology. He made Aliya and was a high school teacher, an organic chemistry professor at the Hebrew university, an officer in the IDF during the 1948 war, and after retirement he continued to teach Jewish and general philosophy, science, and became a very prominent speaker and thinker. He had very provocative views about science-religion relations, and challenged all known views about religion, politics, morality, the Jewish state and more.
He has been an orthodox all his life, he kept going to the same small synagogue because it was "important to daven in public", although he probably didn't believe in the stories of Har Sinai event and the like. Some of his rivals blamed him for being a non-believer, but he was very loyal to the Jewish faith: for instance, he supported Meir Va'anunu who exposed Israel's top secrets about its nuclear program (Leibowitz was NOT a pacifist - he was just anti-Israeli militarism) - but he completely abandoned Va'anunu once the guy converted to Christianity.
Regarding science and religion - Leibowitz always taught that the Torah was only meant to teach faith and how to observe the Halacha, because this is the Jew's duty and obligation towards God; but the Torah WAS NOT supposed to be a science book, and therefore it was very inaccurate, to say the least, in scientific matters.
I came to Israel when I was 2 years old. So no decision there, apart from my parents' choice.
I practiced Judaism most of my life, including a number of years of studying Talmud, daily.
But recently, in light of what Judaism has become (in my view), e.g. seeing the entire Haredi community collaborate with political corruption and evil doing (mainly supporting Netanyahu and his crime organization know as the Likud); seeing political figures such as "Harav" Arie Deri, a 3-times convicted criminal, being one of the major leaders of Judaism today - I stopped being a Jew altogether.
I know that there are other flavors of Judaism. There are good and moral Jews who are trying to maintain the good old, caring and humanistic Judaism. But their lack of power and influence puts the ability of Judaism in a big question mark, for me.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):
Brilliant response which I very much appreciate,
I am on my way to Chabad which is my tradition every Shabbat since 1974.
I’ll answer later today after eating Cholent and taking the Saturday afternoon siestita
Abrazos,
Shabbat Shalom
Myron
I wrote:
Dear Myron,
You are the only one on this list with whom it's a real pleasure to disagree.
There are the others with whom I have agreements, so it's nice to have a good-old Jewish Machloket (debate) with somebody who is a Mentch.
Although I lost my own faith (and the issues that I have with Israeli Chabad), I honestly wish you the best of time at Chabad (good for you for 49 years! and to many more years). Enjoy the tasty Choln't, take a good siesta, and have a great new week.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):
Avner,
Thank you for your great response. Arguing over whether God exists or not is silly, that’s a waste of time. I love the thread when I can derive knowledge from it. I appreciated very much what you wrote pertaining to Professor Liebowitz. I went to google and researched him. Yes I knew of him but only slightly. I never knew more than just hearing his name in passing.
At age 85, I struggle with the thought non stop concerning the GOD of our Patriarchs, the meaning of the Torah being given from Heaven above , but for certain, I’m going to find out soon enough, so I don’t want to rush it, because I’m loving life on this earth and am most content to stay here. Like a lot of us, I am hedging my bets, meaning I don’t want to run the risk of checking out and meeting my Maker, who asks me “why didn’t you put on Tefillin every day? So I put on Tefillin. Then what if he says why wasn’t the Kitchen Kosher? So the Kitchen is Kosher. Why didn’t you go to Chabad every Saturday morning? So I go to Chabad every morning. Over a period of nearly fifty years, I must confess, I love the Jewish way of life. As somebody, who lived in an extremely exciting and adventurous life, sometimes living on the edge, I found Judaism to be a extraordinary way to balance a lot of the so called Mishigas.
After Chabad today (Shelach), I came home and had four friends of mine for Cholent and discussion. I grew up with Mikey, he is the nephew of Joseph Doc Stacher. Doc Stacher was well known years ago in Israel. Olam Hazeh wrote a major story about him.
Doc Stacher lived in Israel. He made a deal with Robert Kennedy when he was the United States Attorney General and accepted exile from the United States in exchange for not going to jail. Doc Stacher was a big name American gangster, who together with other Jews, helped Israel during the era of the Neutrality Act, which made shipping of weapons to Palestine, either to Jews or Arabs, was a criminal act.
Kevin is 25 years younger than the two of us. His grandfather was Abner Longie Zwillman. The other two friends came to hear today’s discussion. We spent the entire 7 hours talking about the history of the Jewish Mob. My father was partners with Abner Longie Zwillman during Prohibition and my father was partners with Joseph Doc Stacher going back to the period of time before the World War 2 in the juke box and pinball machine business and the cigarette machines. There was so much to talk about, since Kevin has been reading a lot of books on the subject and wanted to talk to Mikey and myself, two of the last of that special world, who knew intimately the big names of the Jewish Mob and the Italian Mob, starting with the beginning of the 20th century. It was a terrific afternoon of insightful knowledge as to that era and the people who made it happen. If those 7 hours would have been recorded for posterity, it would go down as an invaluable source of history for future scholars.
Avner, thank you for your very warm greeting and words of kindness. I learned something very special from you today concerning Professor Yeshayahu Liebowitz as to how somebody can find scientific errors in Torah and yet be an Observant Orthodox Jew. If I don’t understand it fully, I understood that the great Professor Liebowitz said Torah is not a scientific document. Our Chabad Rabbis teach us that the Rebbe believed the earth is 5,783 years old. I love the Rebbe. Scientists say the earth is zillions of years old. I love the Rebbe. He can’t be wrong. How did Professor Liebowitz reconcile this question? He went to Shul and he davened. He prayed to who? He stopped defending Mordechai Vanunu, not when he sold out Israel concerning nuclear bombs but when Mr. Vanunu converted to Christianity. That’s so strange. Do we know why he did that?
Avner, were you to be given the opportunity to live your life over, what would you have done?
Shavua Tov
Best wishes
Myron
Joy Brower <jdbresumes@aol.com>:
WOW, Myron!! Whadda fascinating discussion!! I probably got a wee bit "lost in the weeds" during some of it, but there is SO much "meat" on this bone, that I'll probably re-read it after I've read some of my other email messages. But, bottom line, it seems that your friend, Avner, is someone with whom one can agree to disagree but still be good friends! (Which is more than we can say about that OTHER online correspondent....) I LIVED MY ADULT LIFE WALKING ON A TIGHT ROPE IN A MOST COMPLICATED WORLD. IT’S EASY TO MAKE ENEMIES. IT’S EASIER TO MAKE FRIENDS AND IT’S HARDER TO KEEP FRIENDS. THAT TAKES BRAINS AND DEDICATION.
THE REBBE WAS THE GREAT TEACHER HOW TO SUCCEED MAKING FRIENDS AND STRENGTHENING FRIENDSHIPS.
WHY GO MAKE ENEMIES OVER SUBJECTS OF DIFFERENCES OF OPINIONS? MR. AVNER SPEAKS WITH RESPECT. LIFE IS ALL ABOUT RESPECT, TO GIVE RESPECT IN ORDER TO GET RESPECT.
YESTERDAY FROM EXACTLY BEGINNING AT NOON TIME TILL 7 PM, UNTIL THE LAST GUEST LEFT OUR APARTMENT, THE CHOLENT WAS EXCEPTIONAL, THE STORIES OF MEN, WHO LIVED EXCEPTIONAL LIVES, WERE THE KIND OF STORIES THAT EXCITE MEN AND WOMEN OF EXCEPTIONAL CURIOSITY. IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, ONE MUST KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE JEWISH MOB HERE IN AMERICA AND THE VERY SIGNIFICANT ROLE THEY PLAYED IN SUPPLYING WEAPONS AND ARMS TO BOTH HAGANA AND IRGUN AT A TIME WHEN DOING SO WAS A CRIMINAL ACT. MY FATHER’S VERY GOOD FRIEND RUBY GROSS WAS LOCKED UP BY THE F.B.I. FOR WORKING TO SUPPLY AND SHIP ARMS TO PALESTINE, AFTER COMING OUT OF WORLD WAR 2 WHERE HE WAS IMPRISONED IN A GERMAN PRISONER CAMP. ULTIMATELY PRESIDENT EISENHOWER GRANTED HIM A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON FOR HIS ACTIVE ROLE HELPING BOTH BEN GURION AND BEGIN.
A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, AMI MAGAZINE EDITOR, A POPULAR MAGAZINE OF THE ORTHODOX JEWISH COMMUNITY, CONTACTED ME AND TOLD ME HE HEARD ABOUT ME AND WOULD LIKE TO INTERVIEW ME FOR A STORY. WE MET. H E WAS A MOST WONDERFUL MAN, RABBI YITZCHOK FRANFURTER. HE DID A SIXTEEN PAGE STORY ABOUT ME. HE CALLED ME AFTER THE MAGAZINE WAS OUT AND READ BY THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES, THEY SAID ‘MR. SUGERMAN IS THE HOLY MOBSTER!” I HAVE IT ON MY COMPUTER SOME PLACE, LET ME KNOW IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO READ IT.
Joy DB
Norman cohen:
My G-d has assured Jewish survival, Avner, in spite of all the wayward Jews who would have guaranteed Jewish suicide if left to their own devices.
The greatest miracle of all is this Jewish survival.
Jews have been and are warned many times.
G-d will allow holocausts, as He has done
many many many times, for the greater good of Jewish survival ----- more than 3000 years worth.
The world cannot survive without the Jews.
The stiff-necked people; Avner is an example.
Revival always follows tragedy --- until the next time.
Good Shabbos,
Norman
I wrote:
So, God "allowed" the holocaust for the greater good of the Jewish survival...
And this is the god that you call "good and full of mercy". An Interesting notion.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Mark Harrison <cityfox@verizon.net>:
Mr. Efendowicz,
Please provide us with your understanding of Racism in Israel.
What is your view of that?
Now, when it come to stupidity many would agree most government officials are stupid.
The problem there is they are taking their citizens money that seem to me it make the people supporting them stupid.
But you made the comment of Israel's stupidity.
Could you elaborate on how you see that?
I would very much like your thoughts on these statements.
This in no way is some sort of an attack on your thinking it's an understanding of your opinion.
Thank you
I wrote:
Dear Mr. Harrison,
As I promised, I took some time to write my view of Israel racism, as well as the wisdom if its policies.
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word stupidity, it's rather "irrationality", in so many people. And this of course is not unique to Israelis.
A former Israeli scientist, Prof. Daniel Kahneman, won a Nobel prize for proving (along with another Israeli who did not live to win it - Amos Tverski), that people always make irrational decisions that are against their best interests. (BTW, most Israelis still refer to Kahneman as Israeli... which they wouldn't if he was just an American born in Israel).
This issue is vast, so I'll divide my answer into two emails.
Racism:
I think that most Israelis are not hard-core racist. Still, I don't judge people by what they think or believe, but what they DO. (BTW, according to Prof. Leibowitז, this is the main difference between Judaism and most of Christianity - Judaism is about acting, executing, on practical and earthly level, while to be a good Christian it is sufficient to have faith).
So, on the practical level, all Israeli governments have constantly discriminated against non-Jews; and the vast majority of Israeli Jewish public gave them the OK, by their silence, or even active support.
This has been going on, on many different levels.
On the lowest level (which to me is the most severe and worst, morally speaking) there is the Israeli policy towards the (now around 4.5 million) "people who live in the areas that were taken / occupied / liberated in 1967, and are non-Jews". It doesn't really matter if you call them Palestinians, or Philistines, or aliens, or whatever. What really maters is this: they are controlled, either directly (West Bank) or indirectly (Gaza) by the state of Israel, and they can't vote for any independent government. This means that they don't control their lives, thus they don't have civil rights. I don't care if you call this "occupation", or liberation of whatever. If Israel doesn't do one of the following - give them their own state; expel them; give them full civil rights under Israeli law - then this situation persists. And it's been going on for the past 75 / 56 years, whatever, but anyway a very long time.
Any person who sees this as a normal and sustainable situation - is a racist, in my standards. And that includes, on a practical level, most Israelis. Because most Israelis today don't see that this is a major problem, nor they dedicate any second thought for it.
You could argue, that this is not so for racism; that the Palestinians would like to kill us all, or at least deny our right for a Jewish state, and therefore we must keep them under control. This could be a serious argument, if there was not a vast agreement among Palestinians to come to term with an Israeli state. But I agree that this is arguable. The point is, that Israelis refuse to even consider and check this possibility. The Israeli government never had even one discussion on the many plans for peace that were put on the table - Clinton's, Geneva initiative, the Arab initiative, etc. My personal opinion is that most Israelis are OK with the idea that Jews have the right of way in this land, and the hell with the others. To me, this is the definition of racism.
On other levels - Israel was defined by an Israeli scholar, Prof. Asa Kasher, as "an Onion-Democracy". On the face of "the onion", that's for Ashkenazi Jews, and for the settlers in the west bank - there is perfect democracy in Israel. For less fortunate Jews, who live in the periphery (Negev, Galillee, poor neighborhoods), democracy is on paper, they are free to struggle with their hardship, and some of them will be mobilized to upper classes. For non-Jews who are loyal citizens and served in the military (Druze, Bedouins) - it's quite similar, except that recently they were down graded to 2nd class citizens, by the new "Nationality Act" that states that the State was made for Jews; and there are real consequences to that.
For other Arab citizens of Israel (Muslims and Christians, who make 21% of Israel) - they are in deep shit, and especially recently, when crime rate in their sector rose dramatically. Again, you could argue that they are responsible for their situation; but I'm not buying this, and so many of the Israeli Jews do not.
And the irony of Kasher's metaphor is that, the more you peel off the layers of "the onion", the more tears get in your eyes...
After the October 2000 protest, in which 12 Israeli Arabs were killed by police, and an official government inquiry commission, the Theodor Or commission, concluded that non-Jews were (and are) being systematically discriminated against, for decades.
I could go on and on, but you can get the idea.
I could write a separate email about the stupidity of Israel's security (non-existent) policy. If it is still of interest for you. I wrote a few Wikipedia articles on this subject.
Cheers,
Avner E.
Roger Brick:
Avner, thanks for taking the time to pen this.
Alas, with this crowd it’ll be like that guy who got no answer back when he davin’d at the kotel; asked how he felt he said, “how do I feel? Like I’m talking to a fucking wall!.”
You must’ve heard that bad joke before.
But you get points for having the koach to answer them.
My family, yerushalmis and dati, are divided, probably half are left like me.
What gnaws at me is that we’re so busy bowing to the right and eradicating any chance of peace by building up the shtahim, that we are losing the Galil and the Arava.
Fuck, we (if I may us ‘we’) should build a high speed rail to Carmiel and plow funds there. Our Arab cousins have figured this out.
In a generation “bibi” will be a curse word.
