On Monday, June 1, 2020, 11:36:06 AM GMT+3, T wrote:
Does this interest you? Yachad is where I attended several years, liberal Modern Orthodox, a big tent (meaning, LGBTQ friendly, really, not token). Bright, some even brilliant people.
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#ענן_כבודך - ממשיכים בלימוד דף יומי
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וכמובן להצטרף ללימוד..
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On 1 Jun 2020, at 11:38 AM, Avner Efendowicz wrote:
Hi,
I wish, but... I hope that I'm about to start a new job soon. So I don't think that I'll have time for this, even not for the Alma daf...
Thanks anyway.
How are you doing?
Did you watch every second of the long live broadcast of Space-X launch, as I did?...
Cheers,
Avner E.
On Monday, June 1, 2020, 11:43:54 AM GMT+3, T wrote:
OH GOODY A J-O-B! I hope it satisfies you. Tell me a bit about it in layspeak.
And, not even Alma daf, OK. Yet I HOPE you will have or reserve time to live your other passions… family, sailing, hiking the Israel Trail, exploring mystery skeletons in your storeroom, and so on.
On 1 Jun 2020, at 12:15 PM, Avner Efendowicz wrote:
Thank you!
I already stopped coming to Alma. About to start tomorrow, I hope (temporary job, then hopefully another more permanent one. Let's see).
Anyway, I won't stop hiking (maybe this coming weekend, with my son Omer), and watching Space-X launches (did you hear about the one on Saturday?)
Cheers,
Avner E
On Monday, June 1, 2020, 01:18:51 PM GMT+3, T wrote:
Well, doesn’t sound like a prison or factory, which is good. And, temporary always great: Keeps FREEDOM to change from not the best situation to a better situation, including permanent, that we know is a form of longer-term temporary. At least how I lived my professional years intentionally.
You know how different we are in strengths, interests, and sensibilities, which IS GREAT. The truth, I am so low down touching the earth, looking at eyes of very young children and thinking only of what’s best for their full, heathy development inside and outside (nutrition, sane parents with work that pays to put food on table and hold head high instead of despair and anger). SPACE LUNAR etc., since Apollo and the first man, etc., I despise… to me these enterprises steal food, clothing, homes, educational resources of highest quality (adults, tools, field trips, etc.) from humans from prenatal till their last breath in life. Not a living death as we know for majority humans and causes for it we know, too. END OF TRUE ANSWER.
On 1 Jun 2020, at 1:41 PM, Avner Efendowicz wrote:
I see your points. I think that it's more complicated than that.
On the one hand, you're right, it costs billions, which could have been spent otherwise. On the other hand, if you only think for a moment on direct benefits to the human race (which I don't, usually, because I like the scientific outcome of the research) - but if you do, then still, the technology that is being developed for space exploration is eventually being used in thousands of other areas, including clean water for Africa, clean and cheap energy, and so on... even for carbon-fibers and other better materials for windsurfing gear - which of course is Great!!
This leads me to a fascinating topic: Nationalism, Science, Welfare. I dislike Nationalism just as much as you hate space research. Because in my view, nationalism necessarily leads to extreme nationalism (Leumiut leads to LEUMANUT), and then to racism, chauvinism, etc. But what would science do without nationalism? Y. Noach-Harary related, that Communities on large scales, leading to National feelings of togetherness and common myths (with the help of Gossip!), which according to YNH are a MUST for any scientific progress. So I'm facing a sever dilemma here: would I be willing to sacrifice advanced science (aka my main meaning in life), just because it prerequisites Nationalistic emotions? I really don't know...
And you, would probably give up all of Astronomy and Cosmology and Astrophysics (because, why would you give a s**t?...), which cost so much. I understand, but... to me it's the same dilemma.
Just as well, I wanted to be Vegan for many years - but I liked butter and eggs too much...
Cheers,
Avner E.
On Monday, June 1, 2020, 02:38:57 PM GMT+3, T wrote:
Excellent point. I was extreme, global, sentimental, short-term and micro thinking — all symptoms of a losing, ignorant bias. Typically me and all good but MUST have context and balance. And agree, what to do about the Dilemma?
What is function of gossip? A form of marketing? Branding? Hyping stuff with some decent prosocial results?
Well, about chauvinism and racism you can add greed and cruelty… cousins of first two. You imply —
nationalism necessarily leads to extreme nationalism (Leumiut leads to LEUMANUT), and then to racism, chauvinism, etc.
We have long sunk into this cesspool (examples today USA riots… I have lived through these eras triggered by JFK, MLK, Robert Kennedy assassinations). I believe my scant learning of Jewish “sacred texts” is replete with both chauvinism and racism. In other words, if we begin addressing causes, preventions, rehabilitations, etc., of these mental illnesses might that temper or reduce the deadly and disgusting leumaniut?
What’s connection of vegan reference in this can of worms we are dishing up?
I love this most of all, your honest summing up:
advanced science (aka my main meaning in life)
June 1, 2020:
I don't know how to mitigate the bad side of Leumiut (i.e. Leumanut - isn't there a word in the English language for that?...). This is my dilemma, right there.
According to YNH (whom I almost admire for his sharp thoughts and eloquence, and clear, accurate writing), Gossip is what Motar Ha'adam Min Ha(animal in general). It was Gossip, as a biological trait that humans developed, that enabled them to have what YNH calls "inter-subjective conscience", and by that he means that Homo Sapience is the only creature that has subjective entities in his/her mind (abstract notions that don't exist physically, such as: money, companies, countries, religions etc.). And the crucial thing: to share those abstracts with other humans, most of whom are totally invisible to the individual, because they are far away.
Monkeys, for instance, can share some ideas with other members of the group - but they must be in visual range of each other; This is why there are no monkey-confederations.
Per YNH, this is exactly what differentiates humans from the rest of life on earth, and this enabled humans to collaborate, build empires and machines, advance science, and dominate the world. Homo Sapience is by far not the strongest, fastest, fittest, or in any other way most enduring creature - it's mostly that humans can share ideas about things that are not part of the physical reality. Gossip is one manifestation of that. (and as much as I HATE "Erev Tov with Guy Pinnes", and Celebrities and Gossip, I must acknowledge that this is probably a price that I'm paying, to be able to learn about modern physics, among others).
I became vegan 8 months ago, and this way I solved just one dilemma that I had: I wanted very much to not be part of consumption of food from animals, but it was very difficult to avoid butter, cheese and eggs. So, one dilemma less, but a few more to go (the other ones would never be resolved, probably).
Cheers,
Avner E.
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