My opinion on Herzl and Jabotinsky?

On July 1st, 2023, My dear online friend Myron Sugarman (charming@eclipse.net) has asked me:

Avner,

Your opinion of Herzl and Jabotinsky if you’re up to it?

I replied:

Dear Myron,

I'm not an expert in history. Since you asked, I made a short research, and I'll tell you my opinion based on my best understanding.

As far as I learned, Dr. Theodore Herzl was a phenomenal, and somewhat tragic figure.

It seems that unlike many other people in politics (especially these days), he really dedicated his life to finding a practical solution to the then-"Jewish problem", namely the Jews being a prosecuted minority, in times when other nations became free from foreign powers. And he paid a terrible price in health and family relations.

He had what most politicians these days lack - both a long foreseeing vision of the solution he had in mind - a liberal, democratic, secular, advances State that Jews would manage but will be free for all - and not for the Jewish religion; and he had the people skills, and charisma, to carry his ideas out. He was a journalist, playwright, author and a jurist who became a political leader, who mobilized hundreds of thousands in enthusiasm to go to a desert land (albeit not empty), and started a nation almost from scratch.

This activity took a terrible toll - he died at the age 44 from bad health. Historians today regard Herzl as a successful combination of a visionary, modern prophet (not in the sense of future teller, but as an educator of the public with his ideas), a diplomat and a political leader. To me, he is a combination of an idealist, a revolutionist and a Real-Politics person.

The tragedies never left his family. His wife tried to kill herself. His older daughter died at the age 40, her brother (who converted to Christianity and back to Judaism) took his life soon after. The younger daughter gave birth to a son, but suffered mental illness all her life, and died in the holocaust. Her son also killed himself.

Jabotinsky was a great leader, especially when you compare him to his "successors" - whom he would most certainly be ashamed of.

BTW, this is what he had to say about Herzl, after the one time that he heard him speak, in the 6th Zionist congress:

"Herzl made a huge impression on me - there is no other description that would fit: huge; And I will not bow down to personality easily - in general, from all experiences of my life, I do not remember a person who "made any impression on me", neither before Herzl nor after: only here I felt that I was truly standing before the chosen one of destiny, a prophet and a leader with supreme grace, who even when he errs and loses his way - he is still worth following..."

He was one of few who warned the Jewish world of the Nazi danger. He was a hard-liner, who always demanded action, and tended not to depend on foreign entities. Sometimes he was right, sometimes less so.

For instance: his activity to establish organic units of Jewish soldiers put the foundation to a future Jewish military. On the other hand, he was a maximalist, who demanded a full solution - or no action at all. He took this approach in the Tel-Chai case.

Tel-Chai was a Zionist community, one of 4 in the Hula valley, at the northmost tip of Ertz Israel. It was attacked by Beduins in March of 1921, eight residents were killed including Yossef Trumpeldor. The point was abandoned, but later on other communities were built in the area. Some historians claim that this battle and insistence led to the British to include the area in the Mandate, and later on in the State of Israel.

Jabotinsky did not support the defense on Tel-Chai and the other communities. Instead, he demanded that the British be held responsible for keeping this area under Jewish control...

I grew up in Kiryat Shmona, just 3 miles south of Tel-Chai. It is a town named after the 8 killed in Tel-Chai (we used to walk there from school in the Tal-Chai memorial days).

So I think that Jabotinsky was a combination of visionary, practical leader, and a non-realistic maximalist.

There used to be Likud members who could read, and they knew his books and papers; That includes Mr. Netanyahu - who has nothing but sheer disdain to the lower-class Mizrahi fans, who know nothing about Jabotinsky. Those "followers" of Jabotinsky today can't even spell his name correctly, let alone know anything about his history. There is nothing left from the "grace and glory" that Jabotinsky preached for.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Israel’s Major Incursion in the West Bank

Roger's בית בריק <roger@bayitbrick.com>:

A perfect example of reasonable reporting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/05/world/middleeast/israel-military-jenin-palestinians.html?unlocked_article_code=Io2u9BlHrFyz3nG7fSUdZPTHUIXbH3ayiHTDbM_KK5iEQJkxwmyUrF2x2qudu97Z8yl41-9YSegygv1dYkwGqnrUjvIVThC-enLFWXSBcbRtf0I3e4_NqnzDV5Rlo8dIJp2vACzOc6O-SdtINjQknwRLqMCTRrLKjT5eqOEzUfZ5y1GZ3ShO6luSXIkJnCUCBG7VAMYpdfUEtKobfDu2gA0j55LUS8YxxPMUHGHE9YV6AdjhMaKU1AKJcdRTX2GFThwmAwRg1jaJVCKoF1Dfsf_B0pc9-9Pu3nAiCodVI4DBG_bdG1e11x6hr8M5d3Dcmdf7VT27gHSgEQUnPPmkCPcMdBq1axiqfpxupyrprnxgMCUR3g&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Israel’s Major Incursion in the West Bank Is Over.

Did It Solve Anything?

Roger Brick, MD

Jewish Healthcare International Atlanta, GA

USA 201-320-5066

WWW.jewishhealthcareinternational.com

I wrote:

Nothing at all.

Another terror attack today (one man killed), that no military operation can prevent.

Well, it did solve something for Netanyahu: some diversion from the massive protest (26 weeks straight) against his criminal government.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Roger's בית בריק <roger@bayitbrick.com>:

It did accomplish the following:1. it reinforces the hatred the Palestinians have for Israel. 

2. It gives the world more ammunition to say Israel is the aggressor. 

I don’t know what the solution is. And I understand why the IDF felt compelled to go in to get the mamzers. But burning your furniture in winter to stay warm is no solution to long term heat. 

Think bibi and trump can share a jail cell?

Jared (Kushner) can loan his bed again.

I wrote:

Each one's ego alone requires an entire jail house.

Cheers,

Avner E.

On Israeli Racism (Lunatics, chapter 21)

As usual, it started by me sharing this compassionate article from USA's National Public Radio:

2 parents discuss losing children to gun violence between Israelis and Palestinians

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/05/1161221983/2-parents-discuss-losing-children-to-gun-violence-between-israelis-and-palestini?fbclid=IwAR0Bu2PLQhSlaS4XkAeAYyVT-MPPEMsNwxRCicup578GP5cLB4jFt-Swem0

March 5, 2023

Heard on: All Things Considered

NPR's Michel Martin speaks with Robi Damelin and Bassam Aramin, two parents who lost their children to the violence between Israelis and Palestinians, about the current unrest taking place there.

Then, a "discussion" began.

Norman cohen <ishahrofah@gmail.com> wrote:

Ishmael is a wild ass of a man.

His hand will be against every man and [in return] every man's hand will be against him.

                          [Genesis]

If you [Israelites] don't drive out the inhabitants of your land from before you, then it shall come to pass that they shall be as pins in your eyes and thorns in your sides and shall vex you in the land wherein you dwell.

                           [Numbers]

All written at least 2300 years ago [Greek Septuagint], probably more than 2500 years ago [Purim is not included] and most likely more than 3000 years ago [end of story, Mosaic tradition].

                                       Norman

I wrote:

The good old Jewish racism.

Rav Kahana (Ymach Shemo Vezichro) is alive and kicking.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen:

Torat Emet ----- Torah is true.

Effendi Sheker ----- A secular leftist idol-worshiper.

                               Norman

Howard Berglas <howard@btcapital.ca>:

He is worse than just an idol worshipper. He works hand in hand with those that call for the destruction of the Jewish people*.

Howard Berglas, CPA BComm.

Rachel Lipsky <ralipsky@verizon.net>:

It’s even worse than that. Actually he works hand in hand with those who call and act for the destruction of humanity.

Norman cohen:

Ms. Lipsky,

You have to understand.

     The Earth was not created for man.

     Man was created for the Earth.

           But man is destroying the Earth.

           So man must be destroyed.

Nuclear war would be a good method.

     All we need is the right cult leader to

head the right country.

We might soon be there.

                   Norman 

I wrote:

Here is a man (more of a creep, no offense to all dear creeps out there) who is calling for a mass murder by a nuclear bomb. And he is siding with the other creep (Berglas) who claims that I want to destroy the Jewish people.

The truth is, that I am a loyal Israeli citizen, and you are not loyal US citizens.

But let me explain to you your situation, plain and simple:

You guys started a civil war, when your people raided Congress. And you guys side with a criminal organization in Israel (Likud party), which started a civil war against Democratic Israel.

So here are the facts: everyone who started a war against democratic Israel (1948, 1967, 1973) - was defeated, big time. And you guys will be defeated this time. Here is why: you and the ones you side with are in minority; you are intellectually inferior; we have the technology, the courage, the morality; and mainly - your guys are much weaker, militarily. I served in the IDF for 12 years, you didn't. The guys you support - are the ones we in Israel call "Jobniks", people who avoided real combat (or combat-supporting) military service, for lack of courage or lack of capability. We (the democratic, humanistic, liberal camp) will Crush you like little bugs.

Tonight, Netanyahu declared war (one more time) on the State of Israel, by preventing the nomination of a new committee to elect new judges. This is another serious political crisis, that he is driving for personal interests. Thousands of people will swarm the streets this Saturday, and this time, they will respond physically against the Enemies.

As the late Prof. Leibowitz (a devout Orthodox) said: civil wars are sometimes some of the greatest moments of free countries. A free state fights against ANY enemy, be it external (that's obvious) or internal (less so). You and I will probably not fight in this war, because we are too old. But my sons and their friends will meet your sons, grandsons, nephews, other relatives, sons and daughters of your friends - and we will beat the shit out of them, and will shoot to kill if necessary. This is something that you guys are not capable of doing, because I know form my military experience, that those like your NRA friends, who dress in fatigue and wear those stupid war patches - are the dickless pieces of shit, who are very easy to defeat in battle.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Roger Brick (brickrj@gmail.com):

צודק!!

Norman cohen:

The more that Jews are killed by Arab terror, the more that Israel is protected from getting a "Palestinian State".

    Hashgocha Protis.    

While Israel is punished for holding out the possibility of a "Palestinian State".

    Also Hashgocha Protis.

Got it, Effendi? 

             Norman

Howard Berglas:

Efen Does not Believe in G-d.

I wrote:

I'd rather be a traitor in the eye of stupid people, than collaborate with an evil government.

"I'd rather be called a fool all my life on earth, and not to do evil for one hour before the Lord" - Akabia ben Mahalal'el, Talmud Bavli Eduyot, ch. 5)

Your labeling me as s traitor is an honor.

I was both glad and sorry when the dictatorship camp (headed by the defendant Netanyahu) declared civil war on Israel. Sorry, because I hate wars (I've seen many, one as a soldier). But glad, because this is an opportunity to defeat the evil which cannot be persuaded in any other way.

"Values are such things that you cannot argue over; some people love fascism, I hate it. There's nothing to argue about here. Values can only fought over, in civil wars" (Yisha'ayahu Leibowitz)

We have the majority (including some who voted for Netanyahu, but hate his corruption), we have the IAF pilots, special unit veterans, 8200 intelligence, Israeli hi-tech, Israeli finance sector, and more. You guys only have Jobniks and just a few Kahana supporters who can shoot.

So, En garde, stupid - war is coming, and you're going to lose it. 

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Good you can keep that honor.

Along with it you are a liar and Traitor.

I wrote:

Thank you Mr. Berglas.

It's also good to know that you guys are out of arguments, so you keep calling me names and making fun of my last name.

Your idols Trump and Netanyahu are close to be sent behind bars. And you are facing defeat, so be prepared.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Roger Brick:

Avner,

When one lives in a fact free environment, epithets are what you use as a howitzer. Alas, it’s magical thinking. 

As we see here with the traitor trump, after exposing our nation’s most highly kept secrets to others in order to feed his fragile galactic ego, his defense is to call his accusers people who “hate him” or say “but look at what X did!”

It’s the best he can do when the facts of the accusations against him are so plain to see.

It was pleasing to see his prior chief of staff be quoted as saying that …”trump is scared sh*tless.”

Hopefully Bibi and the anointed orange one will soon be tossed on the trash heap of history.

Stay safe. Ignore the small minds.

Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):

Fantasizing about Donald John Trump, ending up behind Bars in a Federal Prison, wearing a Federal Prisoner’s Orange Uniform to go with his Orange hair, for Dr. Roger Brick, is like the same thrill I used to get when as a kid, sneaking a peek at the Playboy Girl of the Month.

Dr. Roger Brick knows, as well as I do, that Donny Johnny won’t do a day in the Big House and that the indictments will only improve his chances of becoming our next President.

Ronald Redfield (rredfield@rbcpa.com):

"the indictments will only improve his chances of becoming our next President."  And that tells us what is wrong with the American people. He is and was a stain on our great nation.

The bias of this group is unsettling to me. I am politically unaffiliated. To judge a Jew by his political beliefs, and to accuse those who differ, are not worthy G-d fearing Jews is biased, wrong, and continually sickening.

I would have no issues being removed from all further threads. The only positive information I have received are several recipes from Myron.

All the best,

Ron

Howard Berglas:

You are a fool one cannot argue with a fool.

You are also not a Believer in G-d that makes you a colossal fool.

I wrote:

I do believe in God, but it's different than your god.

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

She is much nicer than your god, who if exists, he killed 1 million innocent children in the holocaust.

And you guys trust your imaginary friend, to save Israel from it's racism and stupidity... Pathetic.

You are doomed to go extinct, like all creatures in natural history which couldn't adapt to changes in the environment.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Barry Wolfensohn (barrydwolf@gmail.com):

Avner, I know the people on this e mail list wil not be happy with your remarks.

The attacks will begin,  I know they will have little effect.

We are still safe here i the USA because the neo Nais and the deep state have not yet taken away all of free speech.

Howard Berglas:

You are truly evil

Barry Wolfensohn:

are all non believers evil  ?

Norman cohen:

Wolfensohn,

You say that they have not taken away all of free speech?

      So you are OK with the free speech that the Neo-Nazis have in fact taken away, notoriously, with the help of their Hi-Tech social media.

       You no-good snarky stupid German bastard !

                      Norman

Ryan Silver <rls198011@gmail.com>:

Amein!

I wrote:

Ramen!

(That's the Pastafari version of Amein).

STEPHEN GOLUB <golub413@yahoo.com>:

Anyone who looks the Human body , at even one organ, and how it functions ,cannot fail to see that it required an unbelievable superior Intelligence to produce it!! He believes in the spaghetti  whatever? Let him go his deluded way!

I wrote:

Mr. Golub,

If you paid attention in high school, and learned your biology better, you would have realized the following facts, that are among other thousands of pieces of evidence in favor of evolution by natural selection, without the need of an imaginary friend to supervise.

BTW, 99% of scientists, religious and secular alike, agree on the validity of those facts. Therefore, a scientist who was a devout orthodox Jew, Prof. Leibowitz, taught that the Torah was not a source of scientific wisdom - it consists of false explanations, along with too many errors (such as that the bat is a type of bird, that pi = 3, and many more).

Among the many scientific truths:

1. Modern biology provides very concise and accurate (albeit not complete) explanation for the development of physiologic functions by way of natural, blind and unsupervised evolution. Those explanations are way better than the ones provided by religious myths, or, for that matter, by the notion that the Flying Spaghetti Monster made it (which is just as childish and incoherent as the Torah's explanation).

2. The human body is a marvelous incarnation of design; however, even within it there are some features which any engineer would find inefficient, and even a beginner would design more efficiently. One example is the recurrent laryngeal nerve (RLN). This nerve is an extension of the Vagus nerve, which is Latin for "stray", for a good reason: RLN function is to connect the brain with the Larynx (voice box), but instead of going from your head directly to your throat - it detours down to your chest, and then goes back up. In a Giraffe, this is a waste of a good few meters of tissue... obviously not the most efficient design.

This is a very strong evidence, all biologists agree, to a process that happened blindly, without any sense of purpose - that ended up with a functioning organ, although not the most efficient one.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):

AVNER, take this one step further please. I’m not sure whether I heard of Professor Leibowitz or not, but it doesn’t make any difference because I know nothing about him, other than what you just wrote and explained.  That’s very interesting and I’m fascinated. How did Professor Leibowitz reconcile his devout Orthodoxy with his knowledge of science? 

On a personal note, I understand you’re born in the Argentine.  What caused you to make Aliyah?  In other words, as certain Rabbis would ask, where are you in terms of your Yiddishkeit?

 

I wrote:

Dear Myron,

Prof Yeshayahu Leibowitz z"l was a world renown scientist. He got his PhD in chemistry. One of his mentors, Nobel prize winner Fritz Haber (A Jew who converted to Lutheranism just to keep his scientific job) asked him to be his assistant, but it didn't materialize since Leibowitz wouldn't work on Shabbat. Later Leibowitz got his doctorate in medicine, but worked on biochemistry and physiology. He made Aliya and was a high school teacher, an organic chemistry professor at the Hebrew university, an officer in the IDF during the 1948 war, and after retirement he continued to teach Jewish and general philosophy, science, and became a very prominent speaker and thinker. He had very provocative views about science-religion relations, and challenged all known views about religion, politics, morality, the Jewish state and more.

He has been an orthodox all his life, he kept going to the same small synagogue because it was "important to daven in public", although he probably didn't believe in the stories of Har Sinai event and the like. Some of his rivals blamed him for being a non-believer, but he was very loyal to the Jewish faith: for instance, he supported Meir Va'anunu who exposed Israel's top secrets about its nuclear program (Leibowitz was NOT a pacifist - he was just anti-Israeli militarism) - but he completely abandoned Va'anunu once the guy converted to Christianity.

Regarding science and religion - Leibowitz always taught that the Torah was only meant to teach faith and how to observe the Halacha, because this is the Jew's duty and obligation towards God; but the Torah WAS NOT supposed to be a science book, and therefore it was very inaccurate, to say the least, in scientific matters.

I came to Israel when I was 2 years old. So no decision there, apart from my parents' choice.

I practiced Judaism most of my life, including a number of years of studying Talmud, daily.

But recently, in light of what Judaism has become (in my view), e.g. seeing the entire Haredi community collaborate with political corruption and evil doing (mainly supporting Netanyahu and his crime organization know as the Likud); seeing political figures such as "Harav" Arie Deri, a 3-times convicted criminal, being one of the major leaders of Judaism today - I stopped being a Jew altogether.

I know that there are other flavors of Judaism. There are good and moral Jews who are trying to maintain the good old, caring and humanistic Judaism. But their lack of power and influence puts the ability of Judaism in a big question mark, for me.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):

Brilliant response which I very much appreciate,

I am on my way to Chabad which is my tradition every Shabbat since 1974.

I’ll answer later today after eating Cholent and taking the Saturday afternoon siestita

Abrazos,

Shabbat Shalom

Myron

I wrote:

Dear Myron,

You are the only one on this list with whom it's a real pleasure to disagree.

There are the others with whom I have agreements, so it's nice to have a good-old Jewish Machloket (debate) with somebody who is a Mentch.

Although I lost my own faith (and the issues that I have with Israeli Chabad), I honestly wish you the best of time at Chabad (good for you for 49 years! and to many more years). Enjoy the tasty Choln't, take a good siesta, and have a great new week.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Myron Sugerman (charming@eclipse.net):

Avner,

Thank you for your great response. Arguing over whether God exists or not is silly, that’s a waste of time.  I love the thread when I can derive knowledge from it.  I appreciated very much what you wrote pertaining to Professor Liebowitz.  I went to google and researched him.  Yes I knew of him but only slightly.  I never knew more than just hearing his name in passing.

At age 85, I struggle with the thought non stop concerning the GOD of our Patriarchs, the meaning of the Torah being given from Heaven above , but for certain, I’m going to find out soon enough, so I don’t want to rush it, because I’m loving life on this earth and am most content to stay here.  Like a lot of us, I am hedging my bets, meaning I don’t want to run the risk of checking out and meeting my Maker, who asks me “why didn’t you put on Tefillin every day?  So I put on Tefillin.  Then what if he says why wasn’t the Kitchen Kosher?  So the Kitchen is Kosher.  Why didn’t you go to Chabad every Saturday morning?  So I go to Chabad every morning.  Over a period of nearly fifty years, I must confess, I love the Jewish way of life.  As somebody, who lived in an extremely exciting and adventurous life, sometimes living on the edge, I found Judaism to be a extraordinary way to balance a lot of the so called Mishigas.

After Chabad today (Shelach), I came home and had four friends of mine for Cholent and discussion.  I grew up with Mikey, he is the nephew of Joseph Doc Stacher.  Doc Stacher was well known years ago in Israel.  Olam Hazeh wrote a major story about him.

Doc Stacher lived in Israel.  He made a deal with Robert Kennedy when he was the United States Attorney General and accepted exile from the United States in exchange for not going to jail.  Doc Stacher was a big name American gangster, who together with other Jews, helped Israel during the era of the Neutrality Act, which made shipping of weapons to Palestine, either to Jews or Arabs, was a criminal act.

Kevin is 25 years younger than the two of us.  His grandfather was Abner Longie Zwillman.  The other two friends came to hear today’s discussion.  We spent the entire 7 hours talking about the history of the Jewish Mob.  My father was partners with Abner Longie Zwillman during Prohibition and my father was partners with Joseph Doc Stacher going back to the period of time before the World War 2 in the juke box and pinball machine business and the cigarette machines.  There was so much to talk about, since Kevin has been reading a lot of books on the subject and wanted to talk to Mikey and myself, two of the last of that special world, who knew intimately the big names of the Jewish Mob and the Italian Mob, starting with the beginning of the 20th century.  It was a terrific afternoon of insightful knowledge as to that era and the people who made it happen.  If those 7 hours would have been recorded for posterity, it would go down as an invaluable source of history for future scholars.

Avner, thank you for your very warm greeting and words of kindness.  I learned something very special from you today concerning Professor Yeshayahu Liebowitz as to how somebody can find scientific errors in Torah and yet be an Observant Orthodox Jew.  If I don’t understand it fully, I understood that the great Professor Liebowitz said Torah is not a scientific document.  Our Chabad Rabbis teach us that the Rebbe believed the earth is 5,783 years old.  I love the Rebbe.  Scientists say the earth is zillions of years old.  I love the Rebbe.  He can’t be wrong.  How did Professor Liebowitz reconcile this question?  He went to Shul and he davened.  He prayed to who?  He stopped defending Mordechai Vanunu, not when he sold out Israel concerning nuclear bombs but when Mr. Vanunu converted to Christianity.  That’s so strange.  Do we know why he did that?

Avner, were you to be given the opportunity to live your life over, what would you have done?

Shavua Tov

Best wishes

Myron

Joy Brower <jdbresumes@aol.com>:

WOW, Myron!!  Whadda fascinating discussion!!  I probably got a wee bit "lost in the weeds" during some of it, but there is SO much "meat" on this bone, that I'll probably re-read it after I've read some of my other email messages.  But, bottom line, it seems that your friend, Avner, is someone with whom one can agree to disagree but still be good friends!  (Which is more than we can say about that OTHER online correspondent....)  I LIVED MY ADULT LIFE WALKING ON A TIGHT ROPE IN A MOST COMPLICATED WORLD.  IT’S EASY TO MAKE ENEMIES.  IT’S EASIER TO MAKE FRIENDS AND IT’S HARDER TO KEEP FRIENDS.  THAT TAKES BRAINS AND DEDICATION.

THE REBBE WAS THE GREAT TEACHER HOW TO SUCCEED MAKING FRIENDS AND STRENGTHENING FRIENDSHIPS.

WHY GO MAKE ENEMIES OVER SUBJECTS OF DIFFERENCES OF OPINIONS?  MR. AVNER SPEAKS WITH RESPECT.  LIFE IS ALL ABOUT RESPECT, TO GIVE RESPECT IN ORDER TO GET RESPECT.

YESTERDAY FROM EXACTLY BEGINNING AT NOON TIME TILL 7 PM, UNTIL THE LAST GUEST LEFT OUR APARTMENT, THE CHOLENT WAS EXCEPTIONAL, THE STORIES OF MEN, WHO LIVED EXCEPTIONAL LIVES, WERE THE KIND OF STORIES THAT EXCITE MEN AND WOMEN OF EXCEPTIONAL CURIOSITY.  IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, ONE MUST KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE JEWISH MOB HERE IN AMERICA AND THE VERY SIGNIFICANT ROLE THEY PLAYED IN SUPPLYING WEAPONS AND ARMS TO BOTH HAGANA AND IRGUN AT A TIME WHEN DOING SO WAS A CRIMINAL ACT.  MY FATHER’S VERY GOOD FRIEND RUBY GROSS WAS LOCKED UP BY THE F.B.I. FOR WORKING TO SUPPLY AND SHIP ARMS TO PALESTINE, AFTER COMING OUT OF WORLD WAR 2 WHERE HE WAS IMPRISONED IN A GERMAN PRISONER CAMP.  ULTIMATELY PRESIDENT EISENHOWER GRANTED HIM A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON FOR HIS ACTIVE ROLE HELPING BOTH BEN GURION AND BEGIN.

A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, AMI MAGAZINE EDITOR, A POPULAR MAGAZINE OF THE ORTHODOX JEWISH COMMUNITY, CONTACTED ME AND TOLD ME HE HEARD ABOUT ME AND WOULD LIKE TO INTERVIEW ME FOR A STORY.  WE MET.  H E WAS A MOST WONDERFUL MAN, RABBI YITZCHOK FRANFURTER. HE DID A SIXTEEN PAGE STORY ABOUT ME.  HE CALLED ME AFTER THE MAGAZINE WAS OUT AND READ BY THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES, THEY SAID ‘MR. SUGERMAN IS THE HOLY MOBSTER!”   I HAVE IT ON MY COMPUTER SOME PLACE, LET ME KNOW IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO READ IT.

Joy DB

Norman cohen:

My G-d has assured Jewish survival, Avner, in spite of all the wayward Jews who would have guaranteed Jewish suicide if left to their own devices.

     The greatest miracle of all is this Jewish survival.

Jews have been and are warned many times.

     G-d will allow holocausts, as He has done

many many many times, for the greater good of Jewish survival ----- more than 3000 years worth.

The world cannot survive without the Jews.

      The stiff-necked people; Avner is an example.

Revival always follows tragedy --- until the next time.

                   Good Shabbos,

                               Norman

I wrote:

So, God "allowed" the holocaust for the greater good of the Jewish survival... 

And this is the god that you call "good and full of mercy". An Interesting notion.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Mark Harrison <cityfox@verizon.net>:

Mr. Efendowicz,

Please provide us with your understanding of Racism in Israel.

What is your view of that?

Now, when it come to stupidity many would agree most government officials are stupid.

The problem there is they are taking their citizens money that seem to me it make the people supporting them stupid.

But you made the comment of Israel's stupidity. 

Could you elaborate on how you see that?

I would very much like your thoughts on these statements.

This in no way is some sort of an attack on your thinking it's an understanding of your opinion.

Thank you

I wrote:

Dear Mr. Harrison,

As I promised, I took some time to write my view of Israel racism, as well as the wisdom if its policies.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word stupidity, it's rather "irrationality", in so many people. And this of course is not unique to Israelis.

A former Israeli scientist, Prof. Daniel Kahneman, won a Nobel prize for proving (along with another Israeli who did not live to win it - Amos Tverski), that people always make irrational decisions that are against their best interests. (BTW, most Israelis still refer to Kahneman as Israeli... which they wouldn't if he was just an American born in Israel).

This issue is vast, so I'll divide my answer into two emails.

Racism:

I think that most Israelis are not hard-core racist. Still, I don't judge people by what they think or believe, but what they DO. (BTW, according to Prof. Leibowitז, this is the main difference between Judaism and most of Christianity - Judaism is about acting, executing, on practical and earthly level, while to be a good Christian it is sufficient to have faith).

So, on the practical level, all Israeli governments have constantly discriminated against non-Jews; and the vast majority of Israeli Jewish public gave them the OK, by their silence, or even active support.

This has been going on, on many different levels.

On the lowest level (which to me is the most severe and worst, morally speaking) there is the Israeli policy towards the (now around 4.5 million) "people who live in the areas that were taken / occupied / liberated in 1967, and are non-Jews". It doesn't really matter if you call them Palestinians, or Philistines, or aliens, or whatever. What really maters is this: they are controlled, either directly (West Bank) or indirectly (Gaza) by the state of Israel, and they can't vote for any independent government. This means that they don't control their lives, thus they don't have civil rights. I don't care if you call this "occupation", or liberation of whatever. If Israel doesn't do one of the following - give them their own state; expel them; give them full civil rights under Israeli law - then this situation persists. And it's been going on for the past 75 / 56 years, whatever, but anyway a very long time.

Any person who sees this as a normal and sustainable situation - is a racist, in my standards. And that includes, on a practical level, most Israelis. Because most Israelis today don't see that this is a major problem, nor they dedicate any second thought for it.

You could argue, that this is not so for racism; that the Palestinians would like to kill us all, or at least deny our right for a Jewish state, and therefore we must keep them under control. This could be a serious argument, if there was not a vast agreement among Palestinians to come to term with an Israeli state. But I agree that this is arguable. The point is, that Israelis refuse to even consider and check this possibility. The Israeli government never had even one discussion on the many plans for peace that were put on the table - Clinton's, Geneva initiative, the Arab initiative, etc. My personal opinion is that most Israelis are OK with the idea that Jews have the right of way in this land, and the hell with the others. To me, this is the definition of racism.

On other levels - Israel was defined by an Israeli scholar, Prof. Asa Kasher, as "an Onion-Democracy". On the face of "the onion", that's for Ashkenazi Jews, and for the settlers in the west bank - there is perfect democracy in Israel. For less fortunate Jews, who live in the periphery (Negev, Galillee, poor neighborhoods), democracy is on paper, they are free to struggle with their hardship, and some of them will be mobilized to upper classes. For non-Jews who are loyal citizens and served in the military (Druze, Bedouins) - it's quite similar, except that recently they were down graded to 2nd class citizens, by the new "Nationality Act" that states that the State was made for Jews; and there are real consequences to that.

For other Arab citizens of Israel (Muslims and Christians, who make 21% of Israel) - they are in deep shit, and especially recently, when crime rate in their sector rose dramatically. Again, you could argue that they are responsible for their situation; but I'm not buying this, and so many of the Israeli Jews do not.

And the irony of Kasher's metaphor is that, the more you peel off the layers of "the onion", the more tears get in your eyes...

After the October 2000 protest, in which 12 Israeli Arabs were killed by police, and an official government inquiry commission, the Theodor Or commission, concluded that non-Jews were (and are) being systematically discriminated against, for decades.

I could go on and on, but you can get the idea.

I could write a separate email about the stupidity of Israel's security (non-existent) policy. If it is still of interest for you. I wrote a few Wikipedia articles on this subject. 

Cheers,

Avner E.

Roger Brick:

Avner, thanks for taking the time to pen this. 

Alas, with this crowd it’ll be like that guy who got no answer back when he davin’d at the kotel; asked how he felt he said, “how do I feel? Like I’m talking to a fucking wall!.”

You must’ve heard that bad joke before. 

But you get points for having the koach to answer them. 

My family, yerushalmis and dati, are divided, probably half are left like me. 

What gnaws at me is that we’re so busy bowing to the right and eradicating any chance of peace by building up the shtahim, that we are losing the Galil and the Arava.

Fuck, we (if I may us ‘we’) should build a high speed rail to Carmiel and plow funds there. Our Arab cousins have figured this out.

In a generation “bibi” will be a curse word.

A New Smart-Ass in Town

It all started with this:

On April 23, 2023, Barbara Stern <barbarastern505@gmail.com> wrote:

This was posted on Twitter by Elder of Ziyon and felt it was excellent and worth sharing. Perhaps it should be sent to the school boards for their next meetings:

“If the Star of David on Israel's flag upsets you but the crescent, crosses and other religious symbols on more than 60 other flags doesn't bother you...you just might be an antisemite.

If you think that 21 Arab states isn't enough, and 1 Jewish state is too many, you just might be an antisemite."

...

...and more of the same.

Myron Sugerman <charming@eclipse.net>:

BARBARA,

The email you just sent out is the reason we are starting an organization called JEWNITED EMPOWERED WE STAND – J.E.W.S.

Its purpose will be to PHYSICALLY encounter those who are enemies of the Jewish people and give them reason to find other ways in their lives to occupy their time instead of “annoying” our people.  More information will follow shortly.

I wrote:

Dear Myron,

When you wrote "those who are enemies of the Jewish people", did you include Mr. Netanyahu among them?

I'm asking because some of the former Heads of the prestigious Israeli Secret Services (Shaba"k) think that Netanyahu is a serious and immediate threat to the security of Israel, and to the Jewish people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ami_Ayalon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuval_Diskin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmi_Gillon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaakov_Peri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gatekeepers_(film)

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen <ishahrofah@gmail.com>:

Our Turkish Effendi is not aware that there are many Israelis who are frightened to death of the growing numbers and power of freedom-loving religious Jews and will stop at nothing in their devotion to socialist tyranny.

Netanyahu is to Israel what Trump is to the USA ---- a shining beacon of hope; an anathema to leftist tyranny.

                                     Norman

Joy Brower <jdbresumes@aol.com>:

Terrific response, Norman, to that nasty comment about Netanyahu!! Thanks for posting!!

Joy DB

Isaac Barr MD <driheart@aol.com>:

As an Israeli American who participated while in Israel in demonstrations I attest that these demonstration are by Israeli patriots who want judiciary reform to secure checks and balances in choosing the supreme court, want a super majority in Knesset to over rule supreme court decision and demand no exemption of Yeshiva students fro military service. They oppose discrimination of women such as discrimination of Female physicians who are not allowed in professional meeting run by ministry of health. Do not to reward religious communities finances that are by far higher than secular communities. The demonstrators fight a messianic cult that is not concerned about Israel survival but by their cult survival. Netanyahu was a phenomenal PM but his indictment changed his priorities and he will not stop his nasty behavior until the court will release him. Isaac Barr MD Michigan Forum.

Howard Berglas <howard@btcapital.ca>:

As a Canadian Israeli I can attest to the exact opposite.

Howard Berglas, CPA BComm.

President

Ber Tov Capital Corporation

970 Lawrence  Avenue West

Toronto ON M6A 3B6

(Office) 905-944-1008

(Cell) 416-890-1002

I wrote:

Mr. Berglas,

This is an important issue, at least for Israelis such as yourself and me. So I'll take the time to respond to your statement.

As an Israeli resident for the past 59 years, I can say that anyone who claims that the recent attempt by Netanyahu to re-program the Israeli legal system is a "reform" - is either blind, or stupid.

I know quite a few Israelis who (still) support Netanyahu on this. According to recent polls, they are about 38% of the public.

https://www.israelhayom.co.il/news/politics/article/13919073

I know personally some of them - all of them are either uneducated in the political process in a democracy - or blinded by Netanyahu's propaganda on channel 14 (and his Minister of Propaganda, Ms. Distal).

So you, sir, are either completely blind to what is happening, or just being dishonest, or you are stupid. I prefer to think that you are just stupid, because the other two possibilities are worse for you.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

You sir are blind or stupid. If you have the audacity to call me that without ever meeting me.

You cannot have discourse without insulting first?

I was on the streets of Tel aviv not long ago documenting on film the protests with a friend of mine.

Most protesting did not know the issues .Many just blamed Chareidim who they say are behind all of this.

All they did were insult us instead of answering  our questions

Wall street journal and hundreds of other outlets believe the Supreme Court (of Israel) has far too much power in Israel.

I wrote:

Mr. Berglas,

I don't normally do this, I agree that it is ugly and inappropriate.

During times of peace, that is.

But this is not a time of peace. As horrible as it may sound to you, we are at war. Netanyahu and his criminal staff declared a civil war on Israel as a democracy. If and once their plan is finished - this will be a different country.

So far, anybody who started a war against Israel, with the intention to change it to something different than a democratic country - be it a state under foreign control, or a dictatorship - was defeated by the democratic Israelis. (Those times were: 1948, 1967, 1973).

So I used some terms against you which are not appropriate in a decent environment. And I will use worse means against other Netanyahu's soldiers, who are sent to attack, physically with brutal violence, my fellow protesters.

The protesters that you talked to in Tel-Aviv were right: the Chareidim were not the only ones "behind all of this" - they were only 50% of it (that's exactly their share in Netanyahu's coalition: 32 out of 64 seats). 50% is a lot. The Chareidim choose to avoid education, labor and military service, and demand the secular majority to pay for it. They vote at 105% (even their dead vote some times) for parties which collaborate with Netanyahu, no matter how criminal he gets in the process (a very Jewish value, isn't it?). So, they are responsible, big time.

One last thing:

In this war, you Mr. Berglas identify yourself with Democratic Israel's enemy. Let me tell you the news: you guys are minor, weak, intellectually inferior and less skilled than the millions of air force pilots, special unit soldiers, hi-tech leaders, economists, scientists and their families, who are participating in this protest, 17 weeks in a raw. So by any reasonable analysis of the situation, we are going to crush you and defeat you.

If you want to prevent the blood shedding (I do with all my heart) - you'd better: put your weapons down; call off the attacks that Netanyahu is encouraging against protesters; reverse the laws that you have passed; and cancel any plan that you had for a coup-d'etat. Or - you and us will pay a toll in blood, but we will prevail.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Sid Alpert <sidhimself@yahoo.com>:

Am I confused? I do not live in Israel BUT ISNT Netanyahu trying to return Israel to what it used to be?

I wrote:

Dear Mr. Alpert,

You must be a little confused. This happens sometimes, I understand.

Here are a few items on Netanyahu's list of new laws. Please judge for yourself:

1. He pushes to change the lineup of the committee for electing new judges, such that the Government will have a majority. Never happened before, the present lineup served Israel well for decades. No "return to what it used to be" here.

No democracy has an executive power which controls the personnel of the judiciary power, without any constitution to balance it out.

2. He wants to change the ability of the supreme court to disqualify laws that contradict the "Basic Laws" - the set of laws that serve as a substitute for the (lack of) constitution. No "return to what it used to be" here.

No legislative power in any democracy has the unlimited ability to pass any law they want, even when they have a (slight) majority.

3. He wants to strip legal advisers for government departments of their authority - never done in Israel's history. No "return to what it used to be" here.

4. He wants to change laws against bribery, such that he and his likes will be able to accept donations from "friends", in order to fund his legal defense in court (being the billionaire that he is, he still needs financial help because he doesn't have a wallet).

No "return to what it used to be" here.

5. He wants to allow fellows like Aryeh Deri, a serial criminal, 3-times convicted for severe crimes - to be able to serve as government ministers, against a ruling of the supreme court and a well established tradition (and, if you ask me and million others in Israel - against any type of common sense).

No "return to what it used to be" here.

The list goes on and on... until Israel becomes a full dictatorship.

https://www.v-dem.net/publications/democracy-reports/

No "return to what it used to be" here.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Sid alpert:

Netanyahu us a billionaire? Did I read that right?

As for the rest…

Let me ask you this notwithstanding what he is or is not trying to do now:

Do you really feel Netanyahu accepting gifts is grounds to destroy this man who has done so much for Israel?

I wrote:

1. No, he is just a multi-milionair. Sorry, my mistake.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-02-25/ty-article/.premium/with-his-50m-shekel-fortune-netanyahu-is-israels-fourth-richest-politician/0000017f-f276-df98-a5ff-f3ffe8470000

2. Netanyahu accepting "gifts" (= bribery) is a call to further corrupt the government.

And this is *in addition* to the many other items on his list.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Hardly that rich

Bennet is much richer

Barkat is 10 times wealthier

Haaretz lies about anything Chareidi and right wing.

I acted as Netayahu tax adviser in Canada when he was in great demand as a public speaker. Almost all his wealth has come from decades of public speaking not from his acceptance of cigars.

Forbes far more reliable than Haaretz:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/forbes-israel-netanyahu-wealthier-than-obama-406445

STEPHEN GOLUB <golub413@yahoo.com>:

The Biden Family is OH  so "honest and  cannot be corrupted"?? !! Big talk from a man like Avner who supports and voted for Biden and Obama, two  state of the Art, America Haters,  Jew haters, and totally  corrupt degenerates!

Howard Berglas:

Also Avner is against judicial reform because it will allow elected officials to determine judges and he believes that will lead to a dictatorship.

So why is he not upset by how the US elects SCOTUS?

The truth is he dislikes Netanyahu because Avner is left and Netanyahu is Right.

I wrote:

Maybe you don't know this, because you live in Canada:

The USA has a Constitution (and a solid and successful one). Israel doesn't.

This is why Israel needs a more independent supreme court.

Cheers,

Avner E.

 

Howard Berglas:

I live in Israel nowadays more than you do.

I have two homes there one in Ramot and another in Rechavia a few blocks away from where Bibi has his personal residence.

I am well aware and I am not the only one that is of the harm the SC of Israel has over the years perpetrated on Israeli citizens.

It needs to be fixed and will be fixed

I wrote:

You forgot to mention his mansion in Caesarea... 

Come on, you know just like me that Netanyahu is in panic.

He is in a lose-lose situation: if he stops the "reform" - he will lose his coalition. If he resumes it - millions will protest until he falls. That's the vibe in Israel right now.

Let's wait and see.

Happy Independence Day.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Protestors want to unseat an elected PM who received millions of votes and disclosed that there will be judicial reform.

If you are not pleased vote against him next election.

Howard Berglas:

All mistruths by Avner

And much that he leaves out.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2158395/wall-street-journal-newsweek-defend-judicial-reform-israels-supreme-court-is-threat-to-democracy.html

Wall Street Journal, Newsweek Defend Judicial Reform: “Israel’s Supreme Court Is Threat To Democracy”

(January 22, 2023)

I wrote:

OK, Mr. Berglas, you are not an idiot.

You are just a liar.

Lie #1: Netanyahu received a majority of votes.

Truth: all parties which make up Netanyahu's coalition combined, received a total of 48.3% of the valid votes.

Opposition parties combined received 42.9%. The rest are votes which didn't cross electoral threshold - out of which, 0.8% would (maybe) join the coalition. That's a total of 49.1% - almost there, but not quite.

But nevertheless - even if they did get the majority - a major change of the system, from democracy to tyranny, can't be done even by a slight majority. In any democracy, the majority can't strip anyone from their basic rights.

Lie #2: The "reform" was disclosed during the elections.

Even AFTER the elections, Netanyahu announced the goals for his new government. The "reform" was not mentioned.

https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/pm-netanyahu-s-remarks-at-the-start-of-the-cabinet-meeting-29-dec-2022

Lie #3: Both Wall Street Journal and Newsweek stated that “Israel’s Supreme Court Is Threat To Democracy”. But no such statement appeared in the link provided!

What the Yeshiva site did say was the contrary, and tried (but failed) to refute it: that critics say that the a new right-wing government is "a threat to democracy". Not the supreme court - the government! Get it?

And why did they fail to refute this true statement? - because the Israeli supreme court, as powerful as it may be, is the only and last balance and break against tyranny. All other democratic countries have a number of them, a constitution being at the top of the list - but Israel has only one.

Lie #4: "Chareidim get bloodily attacked on a daily basis by Shabak just a few blocks from where I live in Jerusalem."

OK, give me a break. Everybody who lives in Israel knows that Shaba"k is not responsible for enforcing the law on Chareidim, the police is. This is sheer lie not worth dealing with.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Where did I say he got majority of votes?

You can’t even read.

Look you peddle in mistruths. He is elected fair and square.

Vote him out .

I wrote:

Even with a majority, he can't change Israel to be a dictatorship.

That's how democracy works, idiot.

Netanyahu refused to do it in the past, because back then he didn't need it for his own trial. (Minister of Justice Levin refused to take the job in the past, when Netanyahu wouldn't allow him to pass the "reform").

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Such nonsense.

You have only your opinion that Netanyahu wants to create a dictatorship.

Very few agree with you.

Not one person on the left I interviewed in Tel aviv said Netanyahu wanted to create a dictatorship.

I wrote:

And you interviewed - how many?...

More than 200,000 people take to the streets every week, 17 weeks in a raw, in the BIGGEST protest Israel has ever seen. That's a few for you?

Keep lying to yourself, and you will lose this civil war.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Many more than you did.

Until they started attacking one of the interviewers and gave him a bloody nose broke some of the equipment and we need the police to escape with our lives

You are calling for a civil war from the US instead of civil discourse that all democracies demand.

I wrote:

I am not calling for a civil war - the Right has already started it (see a sample picture below).

I am calling for the democratic camp to fight back.

When the discourse ends - that's the time to fight for you values.

"Basic values can't be negotiated or discussed - they must be fought over" - Prof. Yeshayahu Leibowitz 

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Ahhhh you quote Yeshayahu Leibowitz.

Are you orthodox and keep the torah Commandments like he did and his sister Nechama Lebowitz or you choose to quote him out of context as long as it suits you?

I wrote:

What do his opinions about democracy, have to do with religious observance?

"ושמע האמת ממי שאמרה" (רמב"ם, שמונה פרקים)

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

You have no proof how that minor wound was inflicted.

For every one picture you show me a a supposed left person being attacked by the right I can show you ten of the opposite.

You would  know that if you lived in a chareidi neighbourhood like I have.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1921014/police-use-violent-force-against-chareidi-protesters-in-jerusalem-see-the-videos-photos.html

I wrote:

You didn't produce a photo of even one wound (thank heaven).

Yet, there's a big difference: those Chareidi mob were violent first, and police used reasonable force to enforce the law. While none of the protesters has ever been violent prior to the attacks by Netanyahu's proxies (and not by law enforcement).

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen:

We've had a dictatorship of the judiciary in Israel.

    Let's try something else.

I propose a Torah government.

     No Legislature or Parliament ---- G-d has made all the laws.

      A Sanhedrin under which there are local judges to administer disputes and police to maintain order.

      Priests who are responsible for religion, education and counseling.

      A King who administers the country and its defense in the public interest, who taxes at Torah rates and spends only for general public purposes; there are no special interests.

       Prophets who act as the conscience of the country.

                                                 Norman

Howard Berglas:

Excellent idea. I am certain Avner will go for that. It would give Sanhedrai the ultimate supreme court all the power. We would not have to cover ourselves with whether a PM is corrupt or not. Eat Edelstein in Beni Brak would head the Sanhedrin and appoint the remaining positions. 

Who could argue with that?

I wrote:

Mr. Cohen,

Jewish tradition says that all wisdom is already in the Tora and Gemara. I suppose that you agree.

Let's do a little thought experiment (in German: Gedankenexperiment; this is something that Albert Einstein was very good at.)

Suppose that you need to fly to Israel, and you have two choices. On the runway there are two airplanes, and you are told that one is a regular one, designed and built by engineers who were trained in secular universities. The other was designed by Yeshiva bukhers, who did nothing but study Gemara 14 hours a day, for 50 years. So they must know all there is to know about aerodynamics, like any other skill in the world.

Which of the airplanes will you board?

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Only a G-dless person poses such a question.

One can live without airplanes the world survived ages without them.

Also does Israel build its own commercial airplanes?

The world cannot survive without Torah it collapses .

Any fool knows that.

I wrote:

OK, now anyone who doesn't believe in god is a fool.

Goodbye to you, ignorant fanatic.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Do you believe in G-d?

I wrote:

That's irrelevant.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen:

False premise, Effendi.

Yeshiva bocherim would not do something they are not qualified to do.

    Marxists like you do that all the time.

When it says that all WISDOM is in Talmud/Torah .......... it is talking about knowing what to do with what you know.

     That is wisdom.

Intelligence is the ability and capacity to learn.

      Jews are No. 1 in the world.

My best students as a group during my teaching career were during my 3 years at Touro College (Jews) in West Hollywood, Calif.

Smart is knowing a lot.

You need some intelligence to become smart, then you need wisdom to use what you know wisely.

     Then you can design an airplane (or a rocket) if you apply your wisdom.

Talmud/Torah is very good at showing how to apply yourself.

      But most of us ---- even all of us ---- do not follow all of it all the time.

                                                    Norman

Howard Berglas:

Boruch atah Hashem chonen hadas.

I wrote:

Intelligence is the ability and capacity to learn. Jews are No. 1 in the world.

You are a racist, and people like you drove me out of Judaism.

My best students as a group during my teaching career were during my 3 years at Touro College (Jews) in West Hollywood, Calif.

Knowing the illiterate that you are, your students couldn't possibly be any better.

Of course you didn't meet any students better than your Jewish ones - what school would hire you, other than the lower class ones?...

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

I'm afraid Avner you are the racist by today's woke standards as you wish to deny Norman's personaL experience as a professor. You may have your views but you cannot deny others theirs. 

Perhaps you would like to comment on one of the many attempted lynchings by the left of Chareidim?

I wrote:

You did not provide even one evidence of a "lynch".

A bloody nose is not evidence, by your own standards. (oh yeah, "maybe he was hit by a poll"...)

I live in Israel and you don't. I know for a fact that nobody has ever committed a "lynch" on any Chareidi. (If at all, they are the ones who live as parasites on the back of the secular section. But this is a different topic).

You are not different than Israel's channel 14 (Netanyahu's private TV), which, just for one instance, stated that "mob tried to commit a lynch on Sara Netanyahu" while the lady was doing her hair with taxpayers' money (not the Chariedim - they don't pay taxes). Every infant in Israel knows that she could have left the beauty salon and walk to her state car, without any of the protesters touching her (who would want to touch her and be infected). The dozen of police troops were brought there just to make a fake security situation. If you deny these facts, then this will prove your level of honesty, once and for all.

You have already proven that you are a liar, distributing fake news, like your idols Trump and Netanyahu (to whom nobody believes any more, not his party members, not even his wife).

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen:

Leftists are the new Nazis.

Give it time ...... they are fully capable of exterminating Jews.

For now, they are proceeding with "fundamental transformation" of America as Obama promised.

                   Norman

Howard Berglas:

The left lie in Israel about popularity against Judicial reform vs those who want reform.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2184815/watch-live-the-million-man-march-in-jerusalem.html

also all chareidi rabbis told followers to study Torah and not go out and support reform.

Had they not said anything there would have been over a million people in Jerusalem tonight.

I had relatives who went and said there were paid agitators from the left baiting people to engage in violence with vicious name calling.

Popularity should not be gaged by the relative few that proest in Tel Aviv vs the masses that are for Reform.

The 3 hour plus broadcast of the Pro reform protest was a Kiddush hashem.

There were far more people there than any of the Tel aviv protests. Again there would have been aone million Chyareidim there had the leadership recommended that they go.

That dwarfs the left “paid” protestors and agent provocateurs that appear in Tel aviv.

The nature was completely peaceful , with the exception of the provocateurs from the left.

They were documented and I will post their terrible behviour in a few days.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2184342/drama-in-bnei-brak-left-wing-activists-frighten-the-residents.html

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/2184377/watch-mk-pindrus-offers-protesters-coffee-tefillah.html

An enormous rally with hundreds of thousands of demonstrators called the 'Million March,' was held in front of the Knesset this evening (Thursday) in support of the government's planned judicial reforms.

Over 1,000 buses are bringing citizens from all over the country to participate in the demonstration.

Police said that crowds at the demonstration at first reached 200,000 people.Later, as more and more people arrived, and it was almost impossible to get through the crowds that poured in, filling all the streets around the Knesset,, the organizers estimated close to 600,000 people.

Justice Minister Yariv Levin and Knesset Constitution Committee chairman MK Simcha Rothman, the architects of the judicial reform legislation, addressed the demonstrators, as did numerous other politicians. Speakers included Nobel Laureate Prof.Israel Aumann, the head of the student union of Israeli universities, Caroline Glick, popular publicist and media personaiity Noam Fathi, Professor Gadi Taub and others.

Joy Brower:

Thanks much, Howard, our "reporter-at-large" in Jerusalem (or is that Tel Aviv?).  As an American who doesn't see this info in any of our US news media, I really appreciate your reports "on the ground" in Israel!

Joy DB

I wrote:

So many lies in one post... I won't even start. (Professor Gadi Taub...)

Even the smallest Tel-Aviv protest, out of the recent 17 in a raw, was BIGGER than the 75,000-weak rally last night.

Keep lying to yourselves, a bunch of LOSERS (600,000... ha ha), and reality will slap in you face.

Read my Keyboard: if this "reform" ever materialize, I will personally come to the US and concede by eating your stinking hats.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

You are the one lying. The protest was massive. Without a single chareidi there. It was over 600,000. Were you there? No. 

You are not fooling anyone  other than a few on this post with your lies.

Drone pictures of the crowds verify the numbers. You have lost and you are in a panic.

I wrote:

The best estimate from drones and AI software was: 75,000 people.

It's easy to disprove your claim of 600K:

1. You admit that 1,000 busses brought protesters from out of Jerusalem. Even if they were all full, they could fit 60,000. Now, no protest organizer would pay so much just to increase turnout by 10%. Normally, out of town protesters make the majority (especially in Jerusalem which is home to many Haredim, who didn't show up). There's no reason to think that it was different now.

2. The entire Jewish population of greater Jerusalem is 590,000. In order to get to 600K, you would have to assume: (1) ALL of them support the "reform" (There's NO WAY), (2) at least 92% of them showed up, including babies!... (590 * 92% + 60 = 600)

If there's even little sense left in your brain, you will admit that it's impossible. 75,000 is much more reasonable.

As for Haredim: their population in all of Israel is 1,200,000, most of them children under 18. They would have to leave all their babies at home unattended, to make roughly half of that, and come to Jerusalem... So it's impractical to hope for even 600,000 additional Haredim (while you claimed 1 million would come).

The bottom line: you are losing this battle. I'm saying this with all pain and sorrow that there even is a war, but there is.

Even Israel Harel, a far-right journalist (used to be editor-in-chief of Nekuda), admitted this morning that within the sector that carries Israel's economy and military, opposition to this "reform" has vast majority:

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-28/ty-article-opinion/.premium/vain-hope-of-israeli-pro-government-million-march/00000187-c40e-d554-a5b7-dc4ed5870000

"...laws whose opponents – even if they are a minority of the electorate – are the majority of those who carry the state on their backs. Yes, the elites." (Harel)

Israel has always won wars against bigger countries, because we were more moral, more educated, more skilled and had better technology. Today we, the Democratic camp, will win this civil war which you guys started, because we are more moral, more educated, more skilled and have better technology.

Once you understand this, and cancel this "reform", we can avoid the blood shed.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Jack Zucker <jack@fullcirclecolor.com>:

Hi All,

Let’s do a little math. Avner, Roger, Katz, Barry and I represent the 80% (Myron’s numbers.) That leaves 795 (by Myron’s count) on this thread who blindly follow the bluster, but still make up a pathetic 20%.

STEPHEN GOLUB:

Can anyone understand that looney stuff from " Avi"????

I wrote:

Yeah, Mr. Golub, you need to be at least one step further along the evolution ladder from an Ape to understand basic math.

Sorry...

Cheers,

Avner E.

Barry Wolfensohn <barrydwolf@gmail.com>:

Avner, you waste time with math.

This issue is how you feel, which in turn drives the math.

The numbers do not count; Bibi and his supporters are right... all others are leftists, anti Jew, anti Israel, anti reform, anti Bibi, or just plain anti.

Howard Berglas:

Besides busses people drove their cars, took public transportation besides the 1000 busses from across the entire country.

Many did bring their children because the protest was peaceful respectful without bare-chested people attending without vile signs and placards.

You lost decades ago its over for the left and the enemy of the Jewish people.

I wrote:

"Drive their cars and public transportation"... Obviously, you never really lived in Israel.

The Left has been protesting in the streets of ALL Israeli cities, 17 weeks straight, without anyone paying for busses. Next time you manage to arrange 1 protest without using taxpayers money, call me.

I knew that logic and reason was not for everyone. I tried, nonetheless.

Have a good weekend.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

What carries the most weight in Israel is G-d.

I wrote:

Well, Israel Harel (an orthodox Jew) must also be an enemy of the Jewish people, because he disagrees with you:

"...laws whose opponents – even if they are a minority of the electorate – are the majority of those who carry the state on their backs. Yes, the elites." (Harel)

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-28/ty-article-opinion/.premium/vain-hope-of-israeli-pro-government-million-march/00000187-c40e-d554-a5b7-dc4ed5870000

Cheers,

Avner E

Howard Berglas:

where is his kipah. How do you know he is orthodox?

I wrote:

If you really have ever lived in Israel, you would know who Harel is. Founder of the Council of Settlements of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/harel-yisrael

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

You quote yet another out of context.

He states what is going on, the hijacking of Israel by the few. Not by Bibi who is a man of the people but by the Israeli elite , hi tech and leftists ,

He is not stating that it is appropriate his article clearly supports reform of the judiciary.

Again I ask how do you know he is orthodox?

I wrote:

Mr, Berglas, I gave you too much credit. It appears that you are not that smart. So I will explain:

I didn't say that Harel (an orthodox, but it doesn't matter) did not support the "reform". He does.

He agrees with you, that it's "hijacking of Israel by the few."

But he wrote:

The composition of this coalition does not allow for the passage of laws whose opponents – even if they are a minority of the electorate – are the majority of those who carry the state on their backs. Yes, the elites.

In simpler English: Among those who carry the state on their backs (hi-tech, military service, academy, productive industry) - the opponents of the "reform" are the majority.

This is why we are going to beat you guys in this war (that you started) - we have the skills (including military), the talent, the resources.

Think about this: why was Netanyahu forced to reinstate Minister of Defense Yoav Galant (a reform supporter)? Because Galant showed him that with this "reform", Israel will lose the core if the military.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

You mis quote harel and you say he is orthodox then you say you never said he was orthodox You misquote Leibowitz .

You misquote yourself.

Not sure you are playing with a full deck.

I wrote:

You are a "tough head". "A stone head" in Arabic.

I'll try again:

1. I didn't say that Harel did not support the "reform". He does (support the "reform", to be clear). He calls it a reform. He supports it.

2. He agrees with you, that it's "hijacking of Israel by the few." Meaning, once again: Harel thinks, that Israel was hijacked by the few.

3. My point was: Harel also said, that among the Elite of Israel, the Elite that keeps it going - the opponents of the reform are a majority.

4. I didn't say that Harel was not an orthodox Jew. I said that he was an orthodox Jew, and he is an orthodox Jew.

The Kippa is what bothers you?...

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

Looks like a conservative jew to me . You Consider Bennet an orthodox jew?

He also wore a Kippa.

I wrote:

There are hardly any conservative Jews in Israel. And none of them lives in the occupied territories.

Yisrael Harel lives in Ofra, Palestine.

You don't seem to know much about life in Israel.

Cheers,

Avner E.

Howard Berglas:

The left don’t do math well nor do they do science well.

What they do well is lie about those topics.

Jack Zucker:

Apparently the far right doesn’t do English well.

Howard Berglas:

Ryan more so than you know.

Avner is a traitor to the jewish people he sleeps with the enemy.

http://www.multifaithpeace.org/article.php/criseforpeacefilms

Barry Wolfensohn:

This means: all who have a different view are traitors. WOW!

How will the State of Israel continue with all those traitors in their mist?

Should they be discharged from the IDF?

Noa, look out.

Howard Berglas:

When did I say all. I just said Avner.

Barry did you pass grade level 2 reading class?

Yes avner should leave Israel as soon as possible. 

And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Shemot 18:28

Barry Wolfensohn:

I am making a judgement that if Avner is a traitor, then all who have the same view are traitors.

Howard Berglas:

Speak for yourself.

Your Judgement is poor as has been evidenced by your posts.

Avner speaks for an organization that stands for the dismantling of Israel

April 30, 2023, Norman cohen <ishahrofah@gmail.com> wrote:

The first of yesterday's double-parsha, Acharei-Mot, ended with a warning against Molech-worship.

Molech was an ancient god who was appeased by sacrificing children.

     Children would be made to walk between two columns of fires to die by burns and suffocation.

G-d tells the Israelites that this great sin by the Canaanites is the last straw of all Canaanite abominations --- they have hit bottom, enough to warrant expelling the Canaanites from the Promised Land so that Israel can take it over. 

I immediately saw the relevance to today's dying America; it is dying under a combination of mishegoss and shkootzim --- foolish, crazy things and detestable things.

      The analogy to Molech? 

Child sexualizations and mutilations: devastations like walking through fires.  Not dying deaths but living deaths, sold to the dumbest, most naive and gullible population in our history ---- using social media to poison our population, especially the kids, with the cooperation and help of the education, medical, mental health, social and even corporate establishments together with the government.

That could be the last straw as far as G-d is concerned. The collapse of the USA would not be far away. Extermination of its Jews would soon follow -- the 20% along with the 80%, as a wave does not distinguish the grains of sand it crashes upon in this environment of increasing leftist sin and anti-Semitism.

      But Jews in Israel will be safe. Israel has arrived to where the world needs it and G-d supports it.

                                           Norman

I wrote:

Mr. Norman,

You wrote:

• The Leftists are sacrificing children to the Molech.
• Jews in the US will soon be exterminated.
• Israel is burning with far-Right violence, but "Jews will be safe" here.

Well, a wise Jew once said, about your condition -

"You need a Team":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWImZv05HuU

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen:

Effendi,

1.  We'll have a team when the leftist Jews do teshuvah.

      Until then, Israel will get through its growing pains.

2.  I did not say that Jews in the USA will be exterminated soon.

           Your prattle is bad enough without misrepresentations.

     I said it will happen soon after the USA collapses, and I was careful to use conditional words. I am seeing the trends but those trends are not guaranteed to fulfillment.

          A word to the wise ------ a warning.

3.  Israel is experiencing trouble because of stage 2.

          Stage 1 was the transition from socialism to capitalism.

              That was bad enough for the secular leftists and Bibi will be forever hated by them for that.

         Stage 2 is the transition from secularism to Judaism.

               That will take longer and be more painful for the left, but it is underway in progress.

                                                Norman

I wrote:

Got it!

I will start wearing a big white Kippa. Like many criminals in Israel do, when they are indicted in court.

https://www.now14.co.il//עבריינים-עם-כיפה-אמת-או-הצגה-בלבד-פרשנ/

This should help me.

(Bibi did not do this, at least so far into his trial - he's an atheist).

Thanks for the good advice!

Cheers,

Avner E.

Norman cohen:

Effendi,

I would not want a rabbi to be Prime Minister .....

      and a rabbi that I approve of would not want to be Prime Minister.

For the past twenty years of attending Orthodox synagogues ....

Litvisher, Chassidisher, Sephardic ..... I have not heard one sermon on politics.  All have been on Torah.

As it says in commentary about the war against Midian ..........

      half of the army fight on the battlefield, half stay back to daven to HaShem and learn in kollel.

A winning combination ..... physical + spiritual.

                                     Norman

I wrote:

Fair enough.

So long as those who stay at home and daven, get jobs and provide for their families, just as the combatants do.

Cheers,

Avner E.